I n t e r v i e w w i t h Mr. A l e x a n d e r L e n n i e By V i a n d Gene K o w a l c h u k Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Were y o u b o r n i n A l b e r t a ? Yes, Northwest T e r r i t o r i e s then. Can y o u g i v e us t h e y e a r ? 1897. I ' l l be 92 n e x t m o n t h , on t h e 3 r d o f J u n e . When y o u s a y N o r t h w e s t T e r r i t o r i e s , w h a t a r e a was t h a t i n ? A r o u n d t h e A n d r e w a r e a . T h a t ' s w h e r e my f o l k s w e r e l i v i n g t h e n . Now w e r e y o u r p a r e n t s b o r n i n A l b e r t a o r N o r t h w e s t T e r r i t o r i e s a s well? My Dad was. My M o t h e r was b o r n i n P r i n c e A l b e r t S a s k a t c h e w a n . How a b o u t y o u r g r a n d p a r e n t s ? My G r a n d f a t h e r , on my F a t h e r ' s s i d e , was b o r n i n S c o t l a n d i n 1835, I think. And y o u r Grandmother? G r a n d m o t h e r was b o r n i n Y o r k , w h a t ' s now c a l l e d T o r o n t o . So y o u r f a m i l y h a s b e e n i n C a n a d a f o r a number o f g e n e r a t i o n s . Y e s , e x c e p t my G r a n d f a t h e r came f r o m S c o t l a n d . What made h i m come t o Canada? W e l l , I s u p p o s e he d i d l i k e a l o t o f o t h e r p e o p l e d i d . He was a y o u n g b o y , I t h i n k he was 12 y e a r s o l d when he came t o C a n a d a , w o r k i n g f o r t h e H u d s o n ' s B a y Company. Oh, t h a t ' s i n t e r e s t i n g . Can y o u t e l l u s , d i d y o u know a n y t h i n g a b o u t h i s l i f e w i t h t h e H u d s o n ' s Bay Company? No, I d o n ' t , I d o n ' t know a n y t h i n g a b o u t h i s l i f e t h e n a t a l l . A l l r i g h t , h a v e y o u l i v e d i n any o t h e r p a r t o f C a n a d a b e f o r e y o u came to A t h a b a s c a ? No, n o t me. My f o l k s , e i t h e r . M o t h e r and Dad w e r e m a r r i e d i n P r i n c e Albert. M o t h e r was b o r n i n P r i n c e A l b e r t , Dad was b o r n i n F o r t Edmonton a n d t h e y w e r e m a r r i e d i n F o r t E d m o n t o n , t h a t ' s t h e way i t was. They were m a r r i e d i n F o r t Edmonton, d i d you say? Yes, they were. T h e n w h a t made y o u come t o A t h a b a s c a ? I n 1930. I n 1930, and w h a t b r o u g h t y o u h e r e ? Free l a n d , homesteads. L a n d o f o p p o r t u n i t y , eh? Yes, yes. So w h a t d i d y o u g e t ? A q u a r t e r o f f r e e l a n d ? We h a d a h a l f s e c t i o n . Oh, y o u g o t a h a l f s e c t i o n . I had a q u a r t e r o f h o m e s t e a d and a q u a r t e r o f s e t t l e m e n t , I was r e t u r n e d f r o m t h e F i r s t W o r l d War. Oh, I s e e , s o a n y o n e who f o u g h t i n t h e F i r s t W o r l d War g o t t h e i r quarter? Got a q u a r t e r of l a n d f r e e , y e s . I i m a g i n e y o u h a d t o meet c e r t a i n r e q u i r e m e n t s , t h o u g h , r i g h t ? C l e a r i n g and b u i l d i n g ? No, i f y o u h a d a h o m e s t e a d . I f y o u d i d n ' t have a h o m e s t e a d and j u s t h a d t h a t q u a r t e r , why y o u had t o t h e n . B u t I h a d a h o m e s t e a d , you see, a n d so I g o t t h e h a l f s e c t i o n , I g o t them b o t h t o g e t h e r , one r i g h t a l o n g s i d e the o t h e r . Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Where d i d y o u g e t m a r r i e d , M r . L e n n i e ? D i d y o u meet y o u r w i f e h e r e ? D i d you m e e t M r s . L e n n i e i n A t h a b a s c a ? No, I met h e r down e a s t o f E d m o n t o n , C h i p m a n . C h i p m a n , I s e e . And s o w e r e y o u m a r r i e d b e f o r e y o u came h e r e ? Y e s , I was m a r r i e d s e v e n y e a r s when I came h e r e . Oh, I s e e . D i d y o u h a v e a f a m i l y t h e n ? I h a d s e v e n c h i l d r e n when we moved h e r e . Oh, y o u a l r e a d y h a d s e v e n c h i l d r e n when y o u moved h e r e . D i d y o u h a v e , how many a l t o g e t h e r i n y o u r f a m i l y ? We h a d t e n a l t o g e t h e r . Oh, w o n d e r f u l b i g f a m i l y . Y e s , s i x b o y s , no s i x g i r l s a n d f o u r b o y s . A n d G o r d o n i s one o f y o u r b o y s . Yes, Gordon i s one, y e s . Y e s , I w e n t t o s c h o o l w i t h G o r d o n , y o u know. Oh, d i d y o u ? Y e s , I d i d . We w e r e i n h i g h s c h o o l t o g e t h e r s o I know h i m q u i t e w e l l , yes. B e s i d e s the s o l d i e r s e t t l e m e n t l a n d t h a t you g o t , the o t h e r q u a r t e r , how much d i d y o u p a y f o r i t ? D i d y o u have t o p a y a n y t h i n g a t a l l ? I t was t e n d o l l a r s f o r a h o m e s t e a d . We u s e d t o g e t a h o m e s t e a d f o r t e n d o l l a r s a n d t h a t ' s what I g o t , was a h o m e s t e a d a n d I t o o k my s o l d i e r ' s g r a n t r i g h t b e s i d e i t on t h e same s e c t i o n . D i d you s a y you got a grant? W e l l , they c a l l e d i ta grant, s o l d i e r ' s grant. B u t was i t i n t h e f o r m o f money o r j u s t t h e l a n d ? No, i t w a s , w e l l we c o u l d ' v e g o t i t i n t h e f o r m o f money o r we c o u l d t a k e t h i s quarter of land. had one q u a r t e r a l r e a d y so I t o o k t h e o t h e r , t o o . So d i d y o u , was t h e r e a n y c l e a r i n g on e i t h e r one o f t h o s e q u a r t e r s ? No, n o t a t h i n g , t h e r e w a s n ' t a s t i c k c l e a r e d o f f , no b u i l d i n g s o r n o t h i n g , I h a d t o b u i l d them a l l . W e l l , w h a t d i d y o u do? T e l l u s a b o u t t h e f i r s t d a y s t h a t y o u s p e n t h e r e . I mean, y o u ' v e g o t s e v e n c h i l d r e n , a w i f e , a n d no b u i l d i n g s , no n o t h i n g , t e l l us about those times. W e l l , o u r c h i l d r e n was b o r n a t T o f i e l d , f i v e o f them I g u e s s , y e s , f i v e , we moved t o C h i p m a n . My w i f e ' s f o l k s l i v e d t h e r e a t Chipman a n d l a n d was p r e t t y h i g h a r o u n d t h e r e t h e n , y o u know, a n d n o t much money t o b u y i t with. I h a d b o u g h t a q u a r t e r f r o m t h e s o l d i e r s e t t l e m e n t b r a n c h a n d so I t o o k t h i s h a l f s e c t i o n s i d e by s i d e a n d we moved o n i t . T h e r e w a s n ' t n o t h i n g o n i t , I h a d t o do i t a l l . So I come up h e r e a n d I b u i l t t h e house, j u s t a temporary house a t the t i m e . Now, e x p l a i n y o u r t e m p o r a r y h o u s e , was i t a l i t t l e s h a c k ? I t w a s n ' t v e r y b i g , y o u know, a l o g b u i l d i n g a n d i t was 30 f e e t l o n g a n d 20 f e e t w i d e . T h a t ' s n o t v e r y s m a l l , t h a t ' s p r e t t y b i g . T h a t ' s 600 s q u a r e f e e t . Did you b u i l d i t alone? Yes, I b u i l t i talone. I d i d n ' t b r i n g t h e f a m i l y up u n t i l I h a d t h e h o u s e done e x c e p t t h e r o o f . I h a d no r o o f y e t a n d i t was g e t t i n g o n t o w i n t e r . I s e e , s o y o u l e f t them b a c k . So I l e f t them down t h e r e t i l l I g o t t h e h o u s e f i n i s h e d . What d i d y o u h a v e i n t h a t f i r s t h o u s e ? What a b o u t b e d s , d i d y o u make y o u r own b e d s ? No, we h a d b e d s t h a t w e r e b o u g h t when we w e r e on t h e f a r m a t C h i p m a n . A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. And we h a d a new s t o v e was b o u g h t a t C h i p m a n , new k i t c h e n r a n g e . And we h a d a c o a l h e a t e r , t h e y u s e d t o c a l l i t , j u s t t o b u r n c o a l i n . And when we g o t h e r e , i t was no g o o d c a u s e t h e r e was no c o a l h e r e , i t was a l l wood. So I h a d t o g e t a wood s t o v e . So I g o t one o f them a i r t i g h t s . So how l o n g b e f o r e y o u r f a m i l y came t h e n ? When d i d y o u r w i f e j o i n you? I b r o u g h t h e r up one d a y , I t h i n k we g o t h e r e on a b o u t t h e 1 5 t h o f N o v e m b e r , somewhere a r o u n d t h e r e . 1930? 1930. T h a t was j u s t d u r i n g t h e D e p r e s s i o n . Yes, j u s t s t a r t i n g the D e p r e s s i o n . Tough t i m e . Oh, I ' l l s a y we had t o u g h t i m e s , boy! D i d y o u h a v e y o u r own c a t t l e , c o w s ? Y e s , I h a d s e v e n m i l k cows and some y o u n g s t o c k , I d o n ' t remember how many it was. Y e s , and w h a t o t h e r a n i m a l s ? C h i c k e n s , d i d y o u h a v e any c h i c k e n s ? We h a d c h i c k e n s . Pigs? We h a d p i g s . We b r o u g h t two p i g s t o t h e h o m e s t e a d . You m u s t h a v e some s t o r i e s o r some n o t so g o o d m e m o r i e s a b o u t t h e D e p r e s s i o n I i m a g i n e , eh? Y e s , i t was v e r y h a r d . How d i d t h e D e p r e s s i o n a f f e c t you a c t u a l l y ? W e l l , you s e e , you c o u l d n ' t s e l l a n y t h i n g . The o n l y t h i n g we c o u l d s e l l r e a l l y was wood. C a u s e t h e r e w a s n ' t e n o u g h f a r m i n g i n t h e c o u n t r y h e r e and t h e r e was no p l a c e t o s e l l g r a i n e x c e p t t o t h e o t h e r f a r m e r , h o m e s t e a d or whatever out i n the c o u n t r y . W e l l e v e n i f y o u h a d s o l d a n y t h i n g , i t w a s n ' t w o r t h v e r y much. O a t s , 15 c e n t s a b u s h e l . Wheat was 45 and b a r l e y 2 5 . When you s a y s e l l i n g wood, was t h e A t h a b a s c a Power P l a n t wood f i r e d ? Y e s , i t d i d b u r n wood when i t s t a r t e d up. So t h i s i s w h a t you mean by wood, i t was c o r d wood f o r f i r e wood. Y e s , i t was c o r d wood, y e s . F o r t h e c r e a m e r y a l s o , maybe? Yes, f o r the creamery, too. T h e y had t h e power p l a n t , c r e a m e r y d i d . U n i o n H o t e l maybe as w e l l ? Y e s , U n i o n H o t e l b u r n e d wood. The h o s p i t a l , t h e h o p i t a l d i d as w e l l , d i d i t n o t ? Y e s , t h e h o s p i t a l b u r n e d wood. How much w o u l d you g e t a c o r d ? Two d o l l a r s a c o r d . And was t h a t p o p l a r ? T h a t was p o p l a r . A n y t h i n g you c o u l d — Tamarack? T a m a r a c k was two and a h a l f a c o r d . Oh, i t was a l i t t l e h i g h e r . Y e s , i t was a l i t t l e b e t t e r wood. Y e s , b e t t e r b u r n i n g wood, w a s n ' t i t ? Y e s , b e t t e r b u r n i n g wood, y e s , b u t t a m a r a c k was s t a r t i n g t o p l a y o u t a b o u t t h a t t i m e so w e n t t o p o p l a r . Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Y e s , was t h a t r e a l l y y o u r o n l y s o u r c e o f i n c o m e t h e n ? T h a t was f o r t h r e e y e a r s b e f o r e we g o t you know, some l a n d c l e a r e d up, and could r a i s e a l i t t l e g r a i n . I never s o l d g r a i n because I j u s t r a i s e d i t f o r f e e d , and we a l w a y s k e p t p i g s , and m i l k c o w s . Were y o u a b l e t o s e l l some p i g s i n t h e e a r l y t h i r t i e s ? Y e a , t h e y w e r e a b o u t two d o l l a r s a p i e c e f o r a p i g . Now, how? You w o u l d h a v e t o s h i p i t ? They u s e d t o had a t r u c k i n h e r e , J e f f Coke and E l m e r L u k e r . Oh y e s , now w h a t w o u l d t h e y c h a r g e y o u , w o u l d t h e y p i c k up t h e h o g s ? Y e s , t h e y g e t c o m i n g r i g h t t o y o u r p l a c e and p i c k them up. And w h a t w o u l d t h e y c h a r g e you f o r ? Two d o l l a r s f o r a h u n d r e d p o u n d s . T h a t d i d n ' t l e a v e y o u v e r y much? No, t h a t d i d n ' t l e a v e v e r y much. W e l l how d i d you manage? You m u s t h a v e r a i s e d a b i g g a r d e n , l o t s o f potatoes. Oh, we r a i s e d l o t s o f p o t a t o e s and a b i g g a r d e n , my w i f e was a g o o d g a r d e n e r she j u s t r a i s e d l o t s o f g a r d e n . Yes. B e c a u s e a f t e r a l l you d i d have a l a r g e f a m i l y t o s u p p o r t ? Y e a , we h a d a b i g f a m i l y t o s u p p o r t b u t a t t h e same t i m e t h e y h e l p e d w i t h t h e g a r d e n t o o you know. Yes. Yes. And t h e n we had l o t s o f b l u e b e r r i e s them d a y s . W e l l t h e r e w e r e a l o t o f many k i n d s o f b e r r i e s , w e r e n ' t t h e r e ? Y e a , and we p i c k e d b e r r i e s and s e l l t h e b e r r i e s . Oh, y o u s o l d t h e b e r r i e s as w e l l ? Yes, yea. How much w o u l d y o u g e t a pound? W e l l I s o l d them a s l o w as t h r e e c e n t s a p o u n d , b u t t h e a v e r a g e was a b o u t five. Is t h a t r i g h t ? Ten c e n t s w o u l d be a u n b e l i e v a b l y h i g h , y o u g e t t h a t maybe a t t h e s t a r t o f t h e s e a s o n , you know? B u t t h e p r i c e c e r t a i n l y i n c r e a s e d a f t e r t h a t b e c a u s e I remember when we w e r e k i d s when we u s e d t o go p i c k i n g b l u e b e r r i e s , and we w o u l d b r i n g them i n t o A t h a b a s c a , but I'm s u r e we g o t a r o u n d t h i r t y - f i v e , f o r t y , e v e n f o r t y f i v e cents a p a i l . Oh y e s , i t d i d l a t e r o n , y e s . B u t t h a t was i n t h e f o r t i e s . Y e s . But i n t h e t h i r t i e s we d i d n ' t g e t t h a t . No, b u t t h e n e v e r y b i t h e l p e d , d i d n ' t i t ? Oh y e s , e v e r y b i t h e l p e d you know? Yes. I t h i n k I s p e n d t h r e e y e a r s t h e r e t h a t I n e v e r had a p e n n y o f c a s h . We'd a l l t r a d e and b a r t e r , y o u know? Really? So t h e r e was a l o t o f t h a t t r a d i n g and b a r t e r i n g b a c k and f o r t h i n those days? Oh y e s . Who w e r e some o f y o u r n e i g h b o r s ? W e l l , do y o u know t h e S a u e r s , any o f t h e S a u e r s ? Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A Q. A. Yes. W e l l t h e y ' r e my c l o s e s t neighbors, t h e y ' r e my c o u s i n s . Oh, t h e y ' r e your c o u s i n s ? Yes. Matt and George? George and Matt and Frank, a n d — Yes. Tim, t h e y ' r e a l l c o u s i n s , our mothers were s i s t e r s . Oh, I d i d n ' t know t h a t . I see, w e l l , who e l s e now would have been i n that? I s t h a t what you c a l l t h e Ferguson area? Ferguson a r e a , when we moved i n t h e r e t h a t f a l l , t h e r e was - s t a r t from t h e a l o n g t h e south o f t h e o l d t r a i l road south o f where t h e road i s now. L e t ' s see, who's i n t h e r e ? A r e you t a l k i n g about t h e Overaker c o r n e r t h e r e ? Yes, t h e Overaker c o r n e r and then south. That's where t h e o l d t r a i l used t o go. We c a l l t h a t Ferguson Road now. Ferguson Road, Ferguson was on t h e n o r t h end o f i t , and he was t h e f i r s t homesteader i n t h e r e , so they c a l l e d t h e d i s t r i c t a f t e r him, and t h e s c h o o l , we had a s c h o o l t h e r e and we c a l l e d i t Ferguson S c h o o l . Oh, he was one o f t h e f i r s t s e t t l e r s ? The f i r s t s e t t l e r s i n Athabasca. Now when you say t r a i l , why do you say t r a i l , where d i d t h a t t r a i l come from? Pardon? Where d i d t h a t t r a i l when you t a l k e d about t r a i l — L i k e I say, Ferguson was on t h e n o r t h end o f i t up by t h e base l i n e t h e r e , and then south down through, f i r s t you come through my b r o t h e r s , two b r o t h e r s had homesteads t h e r e , and John Berg and Donald Booth, then i t went on south and come t o a - t h e r e was a MacDonald t h e r e one time, he d i d n ' t s t a y o n l y two y e a r s . So when you t a l k about t h e t r a i l , you're j u s t t a l k i n g about a road t h a t went p a s t some o f t h e s e t t l e r s . Yes, a road going through t h e bush. There was no road, t h a t ' s why we c a l l e d i t a t r a i l because t h e r e was r e a l l y , you know, j u s t t o c u t a road through and you used i t . Who c u t t h e t r a i l ? You people y o u r s e l v e s ? Us people o u r s e l v e s . So you r e a l l y , c o u l d you use horses and wagon o r s l e i g h ? Or was i t j u s t horseback t h a t you drove down t h a t t r a i l ? Oh no, we went on horseback, o r wagon, s l e i g h , whatever. You c o u l d go through w i t h a wagon? Y e s . Ferguson up a t t h e n o r t h end t h e r e , he had an o l d Model T when he come i n t h e r e . He used t o d r i v e up and down. Oh, d i d he? So how many a c r e s d i d you c l e a r t h a t f i r s t y e a r , Mr. Lennie? F i r s t year I c o u l d c l e a r f i v e . Now t e l l us how you went about c l e a r i n g . Was i t a l l by hand? A l l by hand w i t h an axe and a grub-hoe. What d i d t h e grub-hoe, I'm not s u r e — I t had a l o n g handle on l i k e an axe and i t had a hoe, you know what a hoe i s , w e l l t h i s was a heavy hoe. We c a l l e d i t a grub-hoe and used i t f o r grubbing o u t r o o t s and s t u f f . Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. W e l l , a c t u a l l y , the b i g g e r t r e e s , you d i d n ' t chop them down. With the grub-hoe you exposed the r o o t s , chopped them o f f Yes, exposed the r o o t s and chopped them o f f and then sometimes they stand t h e r e and the wind would blow them down. You d i d n ' t use horses and a c h a i n t o knock them down? Oh, I d i d some, the s m a l l e r ones. And what was your f i r s t c r o p , d i d you p l a n t a crop then as soon as I t was a l l o a t s . Now, g e t t i n g ahead o f myself a l i t t l e , once you got these r o o t s and what-not p i c k e d or c l e a r e d , d i d you, or how d i d you plow i t ? W e l l , when I got the bush o f f and r o o t s and s t u f f c u t o f f , then we had what they c a l l a brake plow, was a s p e c i a l plow f o r - had a l o n g mow-board, what they c a l l a mow-board on the plow. I t ' s a t h i n g t h a t t u r n s t h e l a n d over. So i t was a b r e a k i n g plow. Yes, i t was a b r e a k i n g plow. One h o r s e , two horses p u l l i n g ? No, they had t o have two or f o u r mostly. And t h e n you had t o p i c k r o o t s ? We were p i c k i n g r o o t s and r o c k s and whatever, and then we'd d i s k i t w i t h a d i s k , a horse d i s k , and work i t up, t i l l i t up t o ready f o r seed bed. D i d you have harrows, as w e l l ? Yes, we had harrows, y e s . That's a l l the machinery t h e r e was i n them days, a brake plow and s t u b b l e plow, and d i s k and harrows, and a seed drill. I see. When you t a l k about the s t u b b l e plow, now That was, you used t h a t the second year f o r plowing because i t would t u r n i t over, w h i l e a brake plow would j u s t go through and make k i n d o f l i k e a ditch. Oh, so once you put a c r o p i n , then you c o u l d use a s t u b b l e plow? Yes, a f t e r you had a c r o p i n , then you used a s t u b b l e plow. What was your f i r s t crop? I g e n e r a l l y had o a t s mostly, sometimes I'd sow wheat but mostly o a t s . W e l l , how d i d you get i t o f f i f t h a t was the o n l y machinery you had? Oh, I had an o l d b i n d e r . I used t o c u t i t w i t h a mower and rake i t , you know, and s t a c k i t and j u s t f e e d i t out of the s t a c k t h a t way. Never threshed i t . Oh, you d i d n ' t even t h r e s h i t a t f i r s t ? No. So once you got your t h r e s h i n g machine Yes, we got a b i n d e r and s t a r t e d b i n d i n g i t and t h r e s h i n g i t . So how many a c r e s the y e a r s a f t e r t h a t , a l i t t l e more each year? A l i t t l e more each y e a r . I don't remember j u s t how many each y e a r , sometimes more, sometimes l e s s . D i d you have, was i t heavy timber t h e r e ? Oh y e s , around my p l a c e i t was heavy. So d i d you e v e n t u a l l y c l e a r your whole q u a r t e r , both your q u a r t e r s ? Yes, I e v e n t u a l l y d i d but I f i n a l l y ended up w i t h a c a t . With a c a t . That was i n l a t e r y e a r s , o f c o u r s e . Yes, i n l a t e r y e a r s . That was about i n , I don't know, '40, '47 I t h i n k , o r '48. The f i r s t time I got a c a t t o c l e a r l a n d . Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I see, what would they have charged you i n those y e a r s , i n the l a t e '40s? What would they have charged you t o c l e a r an a c r e o f land? Or was i t by the hour? By t h e hour, and I p a i d I t h i n k i t was around about $15 an hour, something l i k e that. I remember the name Gleishman, I b e l i e v e he had a c a t and he d i d q u i t e a b i t o f custom work. Yes, he d i d a l o t o f t h a t work. He had t h r e e c a t s , you see. Now, c a t s l i k e t h a t charge c l o s e t o a $100 an hour. So, I imagine your c h i l d r e n were growing up and h e l p i n g you w i t h your work. Oh y e s , as they got o l d e r and they got o l d enough, they went out working. But I managed t o put them a l l through Grade 9. D i d you? So they went t o Ferguson School then. Yes, t h a t was the f i r s t t h i n g when I got my homestead, I says, I'm gonna have a s c h o o l f i r s t t h i n g , so my c h i l d r e n can get t o s c h o o l . W e l l , two of them went t o s c h o o l a t T o f i e l d and they had two y e a r s , I t h i n k , down t h e r e and t h e n they come up here and then t h e r e was a year without a s c h o o l . So we got t h e s c h o o l b u i l t . D i d you h e l p b u i l d the s c h o o l ? I was the main b u i l d e r . But, o f c o u r s e , i t p r o b a b l y was a l o g b u i l d i n g , t o o , wasn't i t ? Yes, i t was a l o g b u i l d i n g . We had, t h e r e was two guys l i v e d west o f me, I don't know i f you knew Fodchuks i n Athabasca, R u s s e l l , and you know Steve. W e l l , they were out t h e r e on t h e i r homesteads, and I got R u s s e l l and Steve t o hue the l o g s and t h a t p a i d o f f t h e i r taxes t h a t way. Oh, I see. Who was your f i r s t t e a c h e r t h e r e ? A f e l l o w by the name of Amber Ross. He came from Lamont. H i s Dad was a m i n i s t e r , a U n i t e d m i n i s t e r down t h e r e . So, I knew him p r e t t y w e l l . So, when I moved up here, I kept i n touch w i t h him and I t o l d him we were gonna b u i l d and s t a r t t h i s new s c h o o l d i s t r i c t up here, so he brought h i s boy up and we got him f o r a t e a c h e r . That s c h o o l must've c l o s e d i n the '40s or was i t i n the '50s a l r e a d y ? L a t e '30s. Oh, when i t c l o s e d , i n the l a t e '40s, yes, I t h i n k so, l a t e '40s, somewhere around t h e r e , yes. So how many o f your c h i l d r e n came t o Athabasca, attended s c h o o l i n Athabasca? W e l l , t h e r e was seven o f them. But the l a s t two are A l i c e and Gordon what came t h e r e . I was working i n town, working i n the h o t e l , c a r p e n t e r t h e r e on the h o t e l , and we moved i n t o town f o r a y e a r . Oh, d i d you? The whole f a m i l y ? Yes, the whole f a m i l y . I r e n t e d a house i n town and we moved r i g h t i n . And Sharon went t o s c h o o l t h e r e , Gordon and A l i c e went t o s c h o o l t h e r e , too, t o t a k e t h e i r Grade e l e v e n . I s Gordon your youngest c h i l d ? No, I have t h r e e younger than him. Gordon, and then Diane, she's a nurse, and Rodney, he's steam e n g i n e e r , he works i n Rocky Mountain House, and S h e i l a , she's B i l l Kostiw's w i f e . Oh, I see, yes, oh, then S h e i l a was your youngest c h i l d . Yes, she's the youngest, y e s . Oh, o f c o u r s e , y e s , y e s , I know now who you're speaking o f . I'm j u s t going t o go back a l i t t l e b i t now. My husband, Gene, has been t a l k i n g t o me about t h e f a c t t h a t you were i n World War 1, and I wanted you t o t e l l us a l i t t l e b i t about your e x p e r i e n c e s . A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I don't c a r e t o t a l k about i t , no, not over t h e r e , no. Is that right? I j u s t never got over t h a t and I don't c a r e t o t a l k about i t . V e r y good, v e r y good, Mr. L e n n i e , we can c e r t a i n l y a p p r e c i a t e t h a t . I've seen t o o much m i s e r y and s u f f e r i n g . I c o u l d imagine. None o f your c h i l d r e n , none of your sons went overseas They were i n t h e second war, the two o l d e s t boys. L e s t e r was k i l l e d over there. One o f your boys was One o f my boys, yes. L e s t e r , my second boy. Oh w e l l , I can understand why you wouldn't want t o be t a l k i n g about wars. I was g o i n g t o ask you a l s o , do you l i v e , Mrs. Lennie s t i l l l i v e s on your home p l a c e . Does Mrs. L e n n i e s t i l l l i v e on your home p l a c e ? Oh y e s , oh yes, she l i v e d t i l l 1950. I mean Mrs. Overacker, your daughter, I'm mixed up, t h a t ' s r i g h t . Mrs. Overacker i s your daughter. I s t h a t your home p l a c e t h e r e ? Yes, i t ' s p a r t o f i t . I gave the s c h o o l d i s t r i c t t h r e e a c r e s t o b u i l d a s c h o o l on, and t h a t ' s where she's l i v i n g now, i n t h a t o l d schoolhouse. The r e s t o f t h a t farm was yours then. Yes, the r e s t o f i t was mine. I had t h a t and a q u a r t e r west of i t . That's p r e t t y good l a n d t h e r e . That's good l a n d . That west q u a r t e r I had was j u s t a dandy q u a r t e r . There was no stones and not t o o many r o o t s when I c l e a n e d i t . Was t r e e s on i t but they were f a r a p a r t , k i n d a o p e n - l i k e . T e l l me, how d i d you get t o town because t h a t road t h a t goes t h e r e now, t h a t pavement, i t wasn't t h e r e i n 1930? The f i r s t time t h a t we went t o Athabasca a f t e r we moved t h e r e i n the f a l l , not the f i r s t time, but I remember i n the s p r i n g , f i r s t time i n the s p r i n g a f t e r i t thawed out, you know, t h e r e was no road. Mrs. and I and more b r o t h e r s were g o i n g t o town and, oh, the road was bad. W e l l , i t was mostly swamp. Which way d i d you go, d i d you go through Colinton? I t was a l l swamp. A t one time, we had t o go through C o l i n t o n . W e l l , I made one t r i p around by C o l i n t o n . But I never made t h a t a g a i n . When d i d you get your f i r s t c a r , Mr. Lennie? Our f i r s t c a r ? W e l l , the f i r s t c a r I had on the homestead, I had one i n T o f i e l d I bought i n 1927, I guess, and here I got my f i r s t i n '45. I see, d i d you have a t r u c k b e f o r e t h a t f o r the farm? T h i s was a t r u c k . I d i d n ' t have n o t h i n g b e f o r e t h a t , j u s t h o r s e s . L e t ' s j u s t go back t o the s c h o o l s f o r a l i t t l e w h i l e . D i d you have, do you remember any o f the a c t i v i t i e s o r s o c i a l f u n c t i o n s t h a t they c a r r i e d on i n the s c h o o l a t t h a t time? W e l l , we used t o have dances and we'd have box s o c i a l s , and sometimes we'd have a p i c n i c and we'd have a dance a f t e r w a r d s . Meetings, I suppose the s c h o o l was used f o r meetings as w e l l ? Oh yes, used f o r meetings and they used i t f o r church. You wouldn't know him, I guess, Archdeacon L i t t l e , he used t o come out t h e r e . He was the one s t a r t e d the s e r v i c e s t h e r e and p r a y e r s . Oh, of c o u r s e we know him. You people never d i d have a church t h e r e , d i d you? No, we t a l k e d about b u i l d i n g one one time and then we'd o f had t o go i n t o q u i t e a b i t of debt and t h e r e was o n l y two or t h r e e f a m i l i e s t h e r e and - Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. W e l l , t i m e s were h a r d t h e n . Times were h a r d . B u t p e o p l e h a d e n j o y e d t h e m s e l v e s when t h e y g o t t o g e t h e r , d i d n ' t t h e y ? Oh, y e s . I know my f a m i l y , t h e y a l l e n j o y e d i t . T h e y a l l l o o k b a c k on i t now. A t t h e t i m e we t h o u g h t i t was h a r d , y o u know, b u t y o u l o o k b a c k on i t a n d know a l l t h e good t i m e s we d i d h a v e , why, i t k i n d a o f f s e t s t h e b a d times. I t was q u i t e a n a d v e n t u r e a l r i g h t , w a s n ' t i t ? D i d y o u b u i l d a new h o u s e , a f t e r you b u i l t t h e l i t t l e one? Y e s , I b u i l t t h e o l d h o m e s t e a d h o u s e a n d we l i v e d i n i t . B e s i d e s d o i n g a l l t h e f a r m w o r k a n d s t u f f , i t t o o k me a b o u t two y e a r s t o b u i l d t h a t house. I t was a l o g h o u s e a n d I had t o saw, k i n d o f sawed o f f , y o u know, on e a c h s i d e , a n d I b u i l t t h e new h o u s e l i k e t h a t . How d i d y o u g e t t h e s i d e s c u t o f f l i k e t h a t , w i t h one o f t h o s e b u z z saws? B i g saw m i l l . Where d i d y o u t a k e t h e l o g s ? I h a d t h e m done r i g h t t h e r e . S a w m i l l c o m i n g t h r o u g h , s a w i n g l u m b e r t h e r e and so I h a d them move o v e r a n d do my l o g s f o r me. Who was t h e f e l l o w t h a t C a l v e r t , Herb C a l v e r t . W o u l d t h a t be a r e l a t i o n t o F l o y d C a l v e r t ? He was a b r o t h e r t o F l o y d . So a f t e r two y e a r s o f b u i l d i n g , w o r k i n g on t h a t h o u s e , I g u e s s y o u j u s t d i d n ' t have t h e time t o spend. I d i d n ' t have t h e time t o q u i t . I was f a r m i n g a n d a l l t h e o t h e r w o r k t h a t g o e s o n a t t h e f a r m , y o u know, a n d t r y i n g t o b u i l d t h i s h o u s e a t t h e same time. I t t o o k me two y e a r s b e f o r e I g o t i t d o n e . Where w o u l d y o u have t o buy w i n d o w s and d o o r s ? I b o u g h t them f r o m F o w l e r s i n A t h a b a s c a . O t h e r t h a n t h a t , what e l s e w o u l d y o u have had t o buy f o r y o u r house? Shingles? The s h i n g l e s I g o t homemade, R u s s e l l K o s t i k , he h a d a s h i n g l e m i l l a n d he made t h e m . He h a d a s h i n g l e m i l l ? I've never heard o f a s h i n g l e m i l l . Oh y e s , he h a d a g o o d o n e . He made g o o d s h i n g l e s , d a r n good s h i n g l e s . What d i d he make them o u t o f , w h a t t y p e o f A n y k i n d o f wood. I g o t m i n e made o u t o f s p r u c e . What d i d he c h a r g e y o u f o r t h e s h i n g l e s ? Two d o l l a r s a p o u n d , I t h i n k . So t h e n a f t e r y o u moved i n , when d i d y o u g e t y o u r f i r s t r a d i o , f o r e x a m p l e ? W e l l , I g o t t h a t t h e y e a r I moved i n . No, I g o t i t b e f o r e we moved i n , i n t h e o l d h o m e s t e a d when I b o u g h t t h e f i r s t r a d i o . I d o n ' t know j u s t what y e a r t h a t was now. P r o b a b l y i n t h e l a t e ' 3 0 s , eh? I t w o u l d be l a t e t h i r t i e s , o r more l i k e l y , i n t h e ' 4 0 s . And t h a t I s u p p o s e y o u p u r c h a s e d i n A t h a b a s c a a s w e l l , eh? No, we s e n t t o E a t o n ' s f o r t h a t . D i d y o u buy a l o t o f t h i n g s t h r o u g h t h e E a t o n ' s c a t a l o g u e ? Oh y e s . My w i f e w o u l d n ' t b u y a n y t h i n g i n A t h a b a s c a i f s h e c o u l d g e t i t i n Eaton's. She'd a l w a y s s e n d a m a i l o r d e r . I suppose e v e r y t h i n g from c l o t h i n g t o rubber boots t o bedding. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. What w o u l d y o u h a v e b o u g h t i n A t h a b a s c a , y o u r g r o c e r i e s ? B o u g h t my g r o c e r i e s a n d we b o u g h t some c l o t h i n g t h e r e , o f c o u r s e , a n d s o m e t i m e s we d i d n ' t h a v e t h e c a s h t o s e n d away b u t I c o u l d t a k e some wood t o town a n d t r a d e i t o f f f o r c l o t h i n g , y o u know, a t t h e s t o r e s i n t o w n . T h e y w o u l d do t h a t , eh? Yes, they would. W o u l d t h e y a l l o w y o u t o c h a r g e up g r o c e r i e s ? Oh y e s , t h e y w e r e g o o d t h a t way. Some o f them w e r e , a s l o n g a s y o u k e p t your note c l e a n . T h a t means a t t h e e n d o f t h e m o n t h y o u had t o p a y ? No, g e n e r a l l y i n t h e f a l l a f t e r h a r v e s t . Where d i d M r s . L e n n i e g e t h e r f i r s t w a s h i n g m a c h i n e ? T h a t was f r o m E a t o n ' s . W e l l how d i d t h e y s h i p t h a t , b y t r a i n ? T h e y s h i p p e d i t b y f r e i g h t o n t h e t r a i n and s h i p p e d i t t o A t h a b a s c a . What w o u l d i t c o s t y o u t o , w h a t w o u l d y o u have t o p a y , w o u l d E a t o n ' s p a y for i t o r d i d you pay t h e f r e i g h t ? No, E a t o n ' s p a i d t o d e l i v e r i t . Must've been a g a s o l i n e motor on i t ? Y e s , I ' l l t e l l y o u a l i t t l e s t o r y a b o u t t h a t g a s o l i n e e n g i n e . We h a d some s h e e p , y o u know, a n d t h e m o t h e r t o t h i s l i t t l e lamb h a d d i e d s o we r a i s e d h i m o n a b o t t l e , a n d we a l w a y s k e p t h i m i n t h e h o u s e . I n a box t h e r e i n the house. When i t g o t on i n t h e summer t i m e a n d he was j u m p i n g a r o u n d a n d a r o u n d , a n d h e ' d r u n o u t s i d e a n d h e ' d come b a c k i n . And t h e M r s . s h e w a n t e d t o w a s h c l o t h e s one d a y a n d s h e p u t a l l t h e c l o t h e s i n a p i l e , l a y i n g t h e r e , a n d he h i d i n t h e r e . So s h e s t a r t e d t h e g a s o l i n e m o t o r o n , boy! t h a t l a m b w e n t o u t o f t h e r e . He n e v e r come b a c k . Y o u t a l k e d a b o u t h a v i n g s e v e r a l c h i l d r e n when y o u came t o A t h a b a s c a . Were t h e y b o r n a t home o r w e r e t h e y b o r n i n t h e h o s p i t a l ? Some o f them w e r e b o r n i n t h e h o s p i t a l a n d two o f them w e r e b o r n a t home. D i d you have a m i d w i f e ? No, a d o c t o r u s e d t o come o u t , D r . Law f r o m T o f i e l d . Oh, y o u h a d t h e o t h e r d o c t o r come. Y e s , h e ' d come o u t f r o m T o f i e l d . W e l l , why w o u l d n ' t y o u h a v e h a d D r . M y e r ? W e l l t h a t was u p h e r e . T h i s was a t T o f i e l d . Oh, b u t I'm s a y i n g o n c e y o u came t o A t h a b a s c a . Y e s , I h a d , M y e r s was h e r e a f t e r I come t o A t h a b a s c a , he was t h e o n l y doctor here. So t h e n he w o u l d come up t o t h e home, w o u l d he? Y e s , Law u s e d t o come u p a n d t a k e c a r e o f them r i g h t t h e r e i n t h e h o u s e . D i d you have any problems w i t h i l l n e s s e s o r anybody g e t h u r t t h a t you had t o t a k e them t o t h e d o c t o r s i n A t h a b a s c a ? W e l l , I h a d my e y e p o k e d o u t f i r s t t h i n g . Oh y e s , how d i d t h a t h a p p e n ? D r i v i n g a team o f h o r s e s t h r o u g h t h e b u s h . T h i s w i l l o w caught on p a r t o f the h a r n e s s , y o u know, a n d d a r n t h i n g b r o k e o f f a n d f l e w b a c k a n d went r i g h t i n my e y e . N o t h i n g t h e y c o u l d do t o s a v e t h e e y e ? N o t h i n g . Took i t r i g h t o u t . Right here i n Athabasca? T h a t was o u t on t h e h o m e s t e a d t h e r e . Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. D i d y o u h a v e t o come i n t o A t h a b a s c a ? I came t o A t h a b a s c a a n d I s p e n t , t h a t ' s when D r . T u r n b u l l was h e r e , a n d he k e p t me t h e r e f o r a week a n d t h e n t h e y l e t me go home. He t h o u g h t i t was g o i n g t o g e t b e t t e r b u t I t o l d h i m l a t e r on t h a t e y e w i l l n e v e r g e t b e t t e r , I don't t h i n k t h e r e ' s a n y t h i n g t h e r e t o g e t b e t t e r . I t h i n k t h a t eye's a l l o u t t a t h e r e b e c a u s e i t was s w o l l e n s o b a d y o u c o u l d n ' t t e l l . So t h i s S a t u r d a y m o r n i n g I t o l d Mom, I s a y s , why we d i d n ' t h a v e money e n o u g h t o r u n to Edmonton. I t o o k e v e r y d a r n c e n t we h a d i n t h e h o u s e when I went a n d I went t o E d m o n t o n a n d I g o t i n t h e r e S a t u r d a y m o r n i n g . No, i t was F r i d a y m o r n i n g cause S a t u r d a y morning they d i d t h e o p e r a t i o n and c l e a n e d i t up. B u t a s f a r a s t h e c h i l d r e n w e r e c o n c e r n e d , no bad i l l n e s s e s o r a n y t h i n g ? No. T h e y h a d no b a d i l l n e s s e s . O t h e r t h a n I suppose t h e r e g u l a r m e a s l e s and c h i c k e n pox? R e g u l a r m e a s l e s a n d mumps a n d a l l t h a t s t u f f a n d b a d c o l d s . What d i d y o u do f o r t h e k i d s when t h e y w e r e i l l l i k e t h a t w i t h c o l d s a n d s o on? D i d y o u h a v e a n y good We h a d o u r own r e m e d i e s . One o f them was e l e c t r i c o i l . E l e c t r i c o i l w o u l d c u r e a n y t h i n g a s f a r a s my w i f e was c o n c e r n e d . They s t i l l had i t down h e r e i n t h e d r u g s t o r e a b o u t f i v e y e a r s a g o . I d o n ' t know i f t h e y h a v e i t there yet ornot. W e l l , how w o u l d t h e y t a k e i t ? Y o u d r a n k i t , o r y o u r u b b e d i t on o r w h a t e v e r . I've never heard o f i t . W e l l , i t ' s t h e s t i c k i e s t d a r n s t u f f , y o u know. I t was i n a l i t t l e b o t t l e . T h a t was a l l o u r m a i n m e d i c i n e m o s t l y . A n o t h e r t h i n g was c r a n b e r r i e s . Take t h e j u i c e a n d g e t them t o d r i n k i t , y o u know. Any o t h e r s t h a t y o u c a n t h i n k o f ? They h a d t h i s p a i n k i l l e r , t h e y c a l l e d i t , a n d i t was j u s t f o r c o l d s . I t was s t r o n g , I d o n ' t know w h a t was i n i t , I t h i n k i t h a d a l o t o f w h i s k y i n it. D i d a n y b o d y a r o u n d t h e r e make w h i s k y ? Oh, t h e r e was l o t s o f i t , y e s . But then people d i d n ' t d r i n k a t dances o r a n y t h i n g Oh n o , n o . J u s t i n t h e i r own homes. Y o u t a l k e d a b o u t w o r k i n g i n t o w n , d o i n g some b u i l d i n g . D i d y o u e a r n money i n a n y o t h e r way, d i d y o u do a n y t r a p p i n g , f o r e x a m p l e ? Oh, I ' v e t r a p p e d some, y e s . N o t a g r e a t d e a l b u t I h a v e . Rats and weasels and What w o u l d a m u s k r a t b r i n g y o u i n t h e '30s? A b o u t two d o l l a r s , i t w a s n ' t a b a d p r i c e i n them d a y s . Well I should say, that's quite a l o t actually. We was g e t t i n d a r n e d l o w o n f l o u r a n d b r e a d a n d s t u f f , a n d I h a d t h i s l i t t l e c o l l i e d o g . She was a good c a t t l e d o g , I n e v e r t h o u g h t she was g o o d f o r h u n t i n g , y o u know, b u t I went o u t h u n t i n g s q u i r r e l s t h i s a f t e r n o o n and s h e come a l o n g w i t h me. And when I was g o i n g b a c k , we come o v e r t h i s o l d b e a v e r dam, t h e r e was a l l w a t e r i n i t , a n d s h e come o v e r t h r o u g h t h e b u s h t h e r e a n d by g o d s h e s m e l l e d a r o u n d t h e g r o u n d t h e r e , a n d p r e t t y s o o n s t a r t e d d i g g i n g . I s a y s , what t h e h e c k i s t h e m a t t e r w i t h you? what a r e you d i g g i n g t h e r e f o r ? I t r i e d t o c o a x h e r home, i t w a s n ' t v e r y f a r f r o m the house. So I w e n t o v e r a n d h a d s u p p e r a n d b y g o l l y s h e was s t i l l b a r k i n g a n d d i g g i n g down t h e r e . I w e n t b a c k down a n d t o o k a n a x e w i t h me a n d s h e was j u s t a b o u t o u t o f s i g h t . She'd dug i n t h i s b e a v e r dam so f a r Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. y o u c o u l d n ' t h a r d l y s e e h e r . So I g o t h e r o u t t a t h e r e and I w e n t a t i t w i t h t h e g r u b hoe a n d t h e a x e and dug i t o u t . And I f o u n d t h i s r a t den down t h e r e . So I was p r e t t y l u c k y , I g o t 15 r a t s o u t t a t h a t den t h e r e . I f t h a t dog h a d n ' t b e e n down t h e r e , I ' d n e v e r knew t h e y were t h e r e . And t h e y w e r e two d o l l a r s a p i e c e t h e n . T h a t was g o o d . You j u s t t r a p p e d m o s t l y a r o u n d y o u r own Y e s , j u s t a r o u n d - I n e v e r was a t r a p p e r o u t i n t h e b u s h , y o u know. J u s t a r o u n d once i n a w h i l e t r a p p i n g r a t s back n o r t h t h e r e i n the s p r i n g . Were y o u a moose h u n t e r a t a l l , o r a d e e r h u n t e r ? Oh y e s , I was a moose h u n t e r a n d a d e e r h u n t e r . Y o u a l m o s t had t o do t h a t t o h a v e e n o u g h , p r o v i d e e n o u g h meat f o r y o u r family. S u r e , I h a d t o . I went o u t one m o r n i n g , R u s s e l l K o s t i k who h a d a s h i n g l e m i l l , he was w o r k i n g o u t t h e r e and I come b a c k t h a t e v e n i n g , and he s a i d , do y o u want t o g e t some m e a t ? And I s a y s , you d a r n e d r i g h t s I n e e d some m e a t . W e l l , he s a y s , I s e e n one b i g o l d b u l l moose up h e r e t o n i g h t come o v e r t h e r o a d . So i f you wanna go w i t h me i n t h e m o r n i n g , y o u c a n r i d e up w i t h me t h a t f a r a n d y o u c a n g e t o f f t h e s l e i g h a n d w a l k . So I went i n t h e m o r n i n g and come up t h e r e a n d I j u s t g o t o f f t h e s l e i g h a n d went 50 y a r d s when t h i s o l d moose j u m p e d u p . I was c l o s e r t o h i m t h a n I t h o u g h I was. He j u m p e d up a n d he r u n a n d I w a t c h e d h i m t h r o u g h t h e b u s h and he s t o p p e d . So I t o o k i t p r e t t y q u i e t a r o u n d t h e r e a n d b e f o r e I g o t t o h i m , I h a p p e n e d to l o o k up a n d h e r e was a moose l o o k i n g s t r a i g h t i n my f a c e . S e t me b a c k a l i t t l e b i t , boy! I p u l l e d up t h e o l d r i f l e and I k n o c k e d t h a t one down. And I w e n t t o go and c u t h i s t h r o a t and h e r e t h e r e was two more s t a n d i n g there. So I g o t a l l t h r e e o f them. So we h a d meat t h e n . What d i d y o u do w i t h t h e m e a t ? The M r s . u s e d t o c a n i t i n j a r s , a n d t h e n I w o u l d s l i c e up a l o t o f i t and dry i t a n d smoke i t . When t h a t g o t d r y , why i t was k e p t f o r e v e r . Now when y o u s a y d r i e d , do y o u mean j u s t i n t h e s u n ? o r i n t h e oven? No, n o , j u s t i n t h e s u n , o u t s i d e where t h e a i r g o t a t i t . And s m o k i n g i t , how d i d you go a b o u t s m o k i n g i t ? Hang i t u p . I made a c a n v a s s t a n d and p u t a l o t o f l i t t l e r o d s a r o u n d on i t , a n d I ' d b u i l d a smoke down i n t h e c e n t e r o f t h i s t h i n g and i t w o u l d a l l go t h r o u g h t h e m e a t , y o u s e e . How l o n g w o u l d y o u smoke t h a t m e a t ? Oh, i t t o o k a b o u t t h r e e d a y s . I n e v e r smoked i t a l l a t one t i m e . Smoke i t a l i t t l e b i t f o r a d a y o r two a n d l e t i t r e s t a w h i l e , t h a t was b e t t e r meat. D i d you e v e r t a k e w h e a t i n t o town t o be g r o u n d i n t o f l o u r ? Y e s , I ' v e done t h a t , y e s . U s e d t o be two d o l l a r s a h u n d r e d . H e r e t h e y j u s t waste i t , t h e y d i d n ' t have the r e a l f l o u r m i l l s . T h e y d i d n ' t do a v e r y good j o b of i t . B r a n was, a l o t o f f l o u r i n i t , so we u s e d t o u s e that b r a n f o r p o r r i d g e i n the morning. B u t t h a t ' s t h e t h i n g we u s e d t o do down i n T o f i e l d . The b i g f l o u r m i l l a t M u n d a r e , we a l w a y s t o o k w h e a t t h e r e i n t h e f a l l , g e t a l o a d g r o u n d up a t one t i m e . I t h o u g h t M u n d a r e was j u s t famous f o r k u b a s s a , Mr. L e n n i e ? But t h e y g r o u n d f l o u r t h e r e t o o , eh? What w o u l d y o u r t a x e s h a v e b e e n i n t h o s e d a y s i n t h e e a r l y '30s? Here? A b o u t t e n d o l l a r s a q u a r t e r , I t h i n k i t was. W o u l d somebody come a r o u n d a n d c o l l e c t t h o s e o r w o u l d you have t o come i n to A t h a b a s c a ? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. T h e y h a d t o pay i t t o t h e s e c r e t a r y a t t h e s c h o o l . He c o l l e c t e d t h e t a x e s . T h a t h e l p e d pay t h e t e a c h e r , no d o u b t . Where d i d you g e t y o u r f i r s t t e l e v i s i o n , Mr. L e n n i e ? F i r s t t e l e v i s i o n I b o u g h t - my memory's g e t t i n b a d , I d o n ' t know - we were i n E d m o n t o n , '56 I t h i n k i t was. D i d y o u s a y you w e r e i n Edmonton? Y e s , we moved t o E d m o n t o n . I g o t a j o b a t F o r t S a s k a t c h e w a n , b u i l d i n g on that bridge there. So we moved i n t o Edmonton and had D i a n e and G o r d o n , and S h e i l a was g o i n g t o s c h o o l y e t t h e n . D i a n e was i n G r a d e 12, she f i n i s h e d that year. I was h e a d c a r p e n t e r on t h a t j o b . Were y o u ? W e l l , a r e you a c t u a l l y a c a r p e n t e r by t r a d e ? Y e s , y e s , I was. I see. What o t h e r t h i n g s d i d y o u b u i l d ? D i d you b u i l d o t h e r b u i l d i n g s i n Athabasca? Oh y e s . I w o r k e d on t h e h o t e l i n A t h a b a s c a and I w o r k e d on t h e b r i d g e . When t h e y b u i l t t h e b r i d g e , I was h e a d c a r p e n t e r t h e r e . Here i n A t h a b a s c a ? I n the 1950s? Yes, yes. T h e n I w o r k e d on some h o u s e s a r o u n d t h e r e . I b u i l t an a d d i t i o n on t o t h e c h u r c h h a l l o u t a t B a p t i s t e L a k e w h e r e t h e y h a v e t h a t , A n g l i c a n s h a v e t h a t c h u r c h o u t t h e r e t o h a v e Sunday S c h o o l and t a k e k i d s o u t t h e r e on h o l i d a y s i n summer t i m e . You d o n ' t mean Camp M e t a w a w i n ? T h a t ' s i t , y e s , Camp M e t a w a w i n . They had a l i t t l e b u i l d i n g t h e r e so t h e n t h e y g o t me t o b u i l d t h i s a d d i t i o n o n . I b u i l t a l l t h a t h a l l and k i t c h e n and e v e r y t h i n g . Y e s , I s p e n t a summer t h e r e a t camp when I was a b o u t 12. So when w e r e you a b l e t o s t a r t s e n d i n g or s h i p p i n g c a t t l e or hogs t o market because t h e r e m u s t ' v e come a t i m e when you d i d n ' t j u s t n e e d i t f o r y o u r own p u r p o s e s o r for food? I s t a r t e d , t r a i n u s e d t o t a k e them t h e r e , one o r two o r w h a t e v e r , a n d you s h i p them t o E d m o n t o n . D i d you s h i p i t t h r o u g h the Creamery? D i d n ' t t h e y buy No, t h e y d i d n ' t buy b e e f o r m e a t . They d i d a t one t i m e , y e s . Not o n l y e g g s and c r e a m b u t t h e y u s e d t o , y o u c o u l d s h i p h o g s t h r o u g h them and I d o n ' t know a b o u t c a t t l e , b u t I am s u r e , seems t o me t h a t I've r e a d i n t h e o l d A t h a b a s c a E c h o s . But you n e v e r s h i p p e d t h r o u g h them? No, I d o n ' t remember t h a t . Do y o u remember a f e l l o w by t h e name o f Jimmy S e r v i c e ? Jimmy S e r v i c e , y e s . He u s e d t o h a u l f o r me. Was i t l i v e s t o c k o r g r a i n ? Livestock. Wasn't t h e r e somebody by t h e name o f S h e w b r i d g e as w e l l ? Shewbridge, ya. B u t he had an i n s u r a n c e a g e n c y , d i d n ' t he? I n s u r a n c e a g e n c y and r e a l e s t a t e o f f i c e . He d i d n ' t have t r u c k i n g , S h e w b r i d g e ? No, t h e y d i d n ' t h a v e t r u c k i n g , j u s t r e a l e s t a t e , y a . I'm g o i n g t o j u s t go b a c k a l i t t l e b i t . Can you t e l l a n y t h i n g f u n n y t h a t h a p p e n e d , a n y t h i n g u n u s u a l t h a t h a p p e n e d w h i l e you w e r e home s i t t i n g o u t t h e r e , Mr. L e n n i e ? Any i n c i d e n t s t h a t you c a n r e c a l l ? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. W e l l , l e t ' s see now. T h a t ' s s o m e t h i n g y o u ' d have t o t h i n k a b o u t , I i m a g i n e , eh? Yes. I s u p p o s e p e o p l e j u s t w o r k e d so h a r d and k i n d o f k e p t t h e i r n o s e s t o t h e grindstone. Yes, y e s , k e p t t h e i r noses to the g r i n d s t o n e . Have you e v e r f l o w n , Mr. L e n n i e ? Oh y e s . I've been i n a i r p l a n e s . Have y o u t r a v e l l e d q u i t e a l o t ? W e l l n o , n o t a g r e a t d e a l b u t some. Do you e n j o y y o u r t e l e v i s i o n ? Oh y e s . I e n j o y e d the plane. I g e n e r a l l y f l y t o BC c a u s e I h a v e two daughters at Cranbrook. I go t o Edmonton and t a k e a p l a n e f r o m t h e r e and f l y to Cranbrook. D i d y o u t a k e p a r t i n any o r g a n i z a t i o n s o r - ? W e l l , I was on t h e s c h o o l b o a r d as l o n g as I l i v e d o u t t h e r e . I n what c a p a c i t y ? I was t h e c h a i r m a n . So w h a t w e r e y o u r d u t i e s as c h a i r m a n ? S e t a s c h o o l b u d g e t a n d s t u f f , you know. H i r e a n d f i r e t h e t e a c h e r , make s u r e t h e wood was t h e r e , pay f o r i t . Who u s u a l l y d i d t h e j a n i t o r w o r k ? F i r s t f e w y e a r s I was t h e r e , we d i d n ' t have no j a n i t o r , t e a c h e r d i d t h e j a n i t o r work. Oh, t h e t e a c h e r s t a r t e d t h e f i r e s i n t h e w i n t e r . W e l l , where d i d t h e teacher stay? Was t h e r e a t e a c h e r a g e ? One y e a r we had t h i s one t e a c h e r , she b o a r d e d r i g h t i n t h e s c h o o l . I p a r t i t i o n e d o f f p a r t o f t h e s c h o o l c o r n e r f o r h e r , and she s l e p t o v e r a t o u r p l a c e b u t she a t e h e r m e a l s o v e r a t t h e s c h o o l . You n e v e r a c t u a l l y had a t e a c h e r a g e t h e r e t h e n . I n l a t e r y e a r s , y e s , a f t e r they formed the b i g s c h o o l d i s t r i c t . Then we got the teacherage. Now when y o u s a y t h e b i g s c h o o l d i s t r i c t , t h a t means w h a t ? That's a school d i v i s i o n . B e f o r e t h a t you w e r e i n what t h e y c a l l e d N e l s o n - ? No, we were j u s t o u t s i d e N e l s o n . You w e r e i n t h e L o c a l Improvement D i s t r i c t ? Yes, L.I.D. t i l l they formed the c o u n t y . And t h a t was i n 1959. Yes, something l i k e t h a t , yes. So o t h e r t h a n t h e s c h o o l c h a i r m a n , what o t h e r o r g a n i z a t i o n s ? I u s e d t o t a k e p a r t i n t h e c h u r c h and any o t h e r o r g a n i z a t i o n s , t h e y g e n e r a l l y s t u c k me i n t o i t . How a b o u t U n i t e d F a r m e r s ? No, I n e v e r j o i n e d U n i t e d F a r m e r s . I n e v e r h a d e n o u g h g r a i n and s t u f f t o sell. D i d you expand i n t o c a t t l e r a t h e r t h a n g r a i n f a r m i n g ? Yes, I r e a l l y l i k e d c a t t l e b e s t , yes. I was a l w a y s a c a t t l e man. When d i d you a c t u a l l y r e t i r e , Mr. L e n n i e ? When I moved t o Edmonton i n t h e '50s t h e r e . W e l l , I q u i t farming before t h a t , i t was i n '50 when I r e a l l y q u i t f a r m i n g . 1950, I t h i n k i t was. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. So m o s t o f y o u r f a m i l y i s n ' t h e r e a n y m o r e , n o t i n A t h a b a s c a , eh? Gordon i s h e r e and -? G o r d o n and D o r o t h y , and S h e i l a ' s i n R o c h e s t e r . And t h e r e s t o f them a r e a l l o v e r . Y e s , we g o t f o u r i n E d m o n t o n , two i n C r a n b r o o k , and two i n R o c k y M o u n t a i n House. So t h e y ' r e a l l i n A l b e r t a . A l l but Cranbrook. I s h o u l d ' v e a s k e d y o u a b o u t when you g o t m a r r i e d , what k i n d o f w e d d i n g y o u had. W e d d i n g s w e r e p r e t t y s i m p l e i n t h o s e d a y s , eh? I t was a v e r y s i m p l e w e d d i n g . We g o t m a r r i e d i n my w i f e ' s p a r e n t s ' home, a n d we had a b i g w e d d i n g d a n c e i n my p a r e n t s ' home t h a t n i g h t . I s u p p o s e t h e m e a l was j u s t p r e p a r e d by y o u r - ? P r e p a r e d by t h e l o c a l l a d i e s . And y o u s t a r t e d o u t w i t h j u s t a m i n i m u n amount o f money, I s u p p o s e . I t h i n k I h a d s e v e n d o l l a r s a f t e r t h e w e d d i n g was o v e r . I had been b a c h i n g y o u s e e , and I had t h i s h o u s e t o move i n t o . I had a f e w g r o c e r i e s i n there to s t a r t out w i t h . B u t e v e r y b o d y seemed t o make o u t o k a y and p r o s p e r . E v e r y b o d y made o u t o k a y and p r o s p e r e d and seemed t o e n j o y l i f e t o i t s fullest. T h e y had more t i m e t h e n t h a n t h e y do now. Y e s , i t seemed l i k e i t was n o t h i n g t o h i t c h up t h e team on a Sunday a f t e r - n o o n and go o f f f o r t h e d a y . S u r e , go o u t f o r t h e d a y . You d o n ' t h a v e t h a t t i m e any more e v e n i f t h e y got c a r s to t r a v e l w i t h . I t ' s a shame t h a t p e o p l e d o n ' t t a k e t i m e t o live. I know F r a n c e s O v e r a c k e r and W i l f r e d , t h e y g o t them two c h i l d r e n , w e l l , t h e y h a v e no t i m e t o t h e m s e l v e s . S u n d a y , any d a y , t h e y ' r e o u t playing b a l l . D r i v i n g the k i d s around, p l a y i n g b a l l . I come o u t t h e r e t h e o t h e r day and F r a n c e s a n d W i l f r e d j u s t come home f r o m B a r r h e a d . They'd been o u t t o a b a l l g a m e o u t t h e r e . I d o n ' t know, i t seems r i d i c u l o u s t o go to Barrhead to p l a y b a l l . B u t w e ' r e g o i n g f a r t h e r and f a r t h e r a f i e l d a l l t h e t i m e . That's r i g h t . F a s t e r and f a s t e r c a r s . Y o u know, we s t u c k p r e t t y c l o s e t o home i n o u r own a r e a s when we w e r e y o u n g a n d now o u r k i d s j u s t seem t o be g o i n g f a r t h e r a n d f a r t h e r . I d o n ' t know i f t h e f a m i l i e s a r e as c l o s e a n y m o r e . They seem t o be j u s t g o i n g o f f i n e v e r y d i r e c t i o n a l l t h e t i m e . What, f o r e x a m p l e , w o u l d y o u do w i t h y o u r f a m i l y i n the o l d days? We'd go v i s i t some o f t h e n e i g h b o r s o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t . Maybe go o u t picking berries. D i d you p l a y c a r d s ? Y e s , we p l a y e d c a r d s i n t h e e v e n i n g s . D i d you e v e r have s u r p r i s e p a r t i e s ? Card p a r t i e s ? Y e s , we h a d l o t s o f them o u t t h e r e a t F e r g u s o n . Crib parties. Y e s , I g u e s s t h e y were the good o l d d a y s , weren't they? Yes. T h e y w e r e t o me, anyway. Our d a u g h t e r was j u s t l o o k i n g a t some o f t h e t h i n g s I w r o t e i n my s t o r y t h a t I'm w r i t i n g a b o u t my f a m i l y and l i f e on t h e f a r m . She s a i d , I d o n ' t t h i n k o u r l i v e s w i l l be q u i t e a s i n t e r e s t i n g as y o u r s . A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I remember one y e a r my h o r s e s a l l d i e d and I had a team o f o x e n . I went t o t o w n , h a d t o go t o t o w n f o r s o m e t h i n g , g r o c e r i e s and s t u f f . The r o a d s w e r e b a d , a n d y o u know I was g o n e a week t o make t h a t t r i p . S h e i l a , our y o u n g e s t g i r l , who n e v e r r o d e my h o r s e h a r d l y , and I was t e l l i n g h e r a b o u t t h i s t r i p w i t h t h e s e o x e n . What d i d y o u do i t f o r , Dad? I s a y s , To p u t some f l o u r i n y o u r b e l l y . W e l l , how d i d y o u manage i f y o u w e r e gone f o r a week? Oh, my f a m i l y was g o o d . T h e y w o r k e d on t h e f a r m and k e p t — i t was i n t h e s p r i n g o f t h e y e a r and I w a s n ' t d o i n g a n y f a r m i n g y e t . I camped o u t a l o n g s i d e the road. I had my own g r u b w i t h me. What w o u l d y o u h a v e t a k e n a l o n g f o r g r u b t h e n ? D r i e d meat and b r e a d and b u t t e r , few p o t a t o e s , and m i l k . When y o u g o t t o A t h a b a s c a , d i d y o u s t a y i n town a t a l l o v e r n i g h t ? O v e r n i g h t , I s t a y e d one n i g h t and n e x t d a y I s t a r t e d f o r home a g a i n . D i d you s t a y a t t h e h o t e l ? No, n o , c o u l d n ' t a f f o r d t h a t e v e n i f i t was c h e a p . No, I had my own b l a n k e t s and I s l e p t r i g h t on t h e g r o u n d . W e l l , t h e r e was a n o l d l i v e r y b a r n , y o u d i d n ' t p a r k y o u r two o x e n t h e r e ? No. A n o t h e r t h i n g was t h a t d a r n h i l l t o c l i m b , e a s t h i l l . Went s t r a i g h t up t h a t h i l l , t h e r o a d d i d . Wasn't c u t down y e t t h e n , l i k e i t i s now. T h e y w e r e s t e e r s r a i s e d r i g h t on t h e f a r m . I s e e , t h e y w e r e f a i r l y tame t h e n . B u t s t i l l , you had t o h a r n e s s them up. Oh y e s , i t ' s n o t h i n g t o b r e a k i n g o x e n , t h o u g h , y o u p u t a h a r n e s s on them. The m a i n t h i n g i s t o g e t them t o g o . They were e a s i e r t h a n h o r s e s , then? Oh y e s . B u t t h e t h i n g was t o g e t them m o v i n g , eh? T h a t ' s why t h e t r i p t o o k y o u so l o n g , eh? S u r e , t h a t ' s why i t t o o k so l o n g b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e so s l o w . B u t t h e y were p o w e r f u l , boy! Oh, t h e y w e r e p o w e r f u l . I h a d a l o t o f g o o d h o r s e s i n my day b u t I n e v e r had a n y t h a t c o u l d o u t p u l l a team o f o x e n , Is that right? So d i d y o u u s e them a t a l l on t h e f a r m f o r a n y f a r m w o r k ? I j u s t h a d them f o r a b o u t two y e a r s . Y e s , I u s e d them f o r f a r m w o r k . I d o n ' t know w h a t b u t h o r s e s g o t some k i n d o f d i s e a s e and t h e y j u s t d i e d every year. I ' d go and buy a n o t h e r one and t h a t one w o u l d g e t s i c k and die. T h e y u s e d t o c a l l i t swamp f e v e r , w h a t e v e r t h a t was. Where w o u l d y o u buy y o u r h o r s e s ? Oh, a r o u n d t h e c o u n t r y h e r e . I s u p p o s e y o u c o u l d a l w a y s buy them f r o m t h e n e i g h b o r s , eh? Oh y e s , i f t h e n e i g h b o r had one t o s e l l , I ' d buy f r o m h i m . You h a d m e n t i o n e d y o u had r a i s e d s h e e p f o r a w h i l e . Yes, I d i d have sheep. D i d y o u u s e t h e m e a t , as w e l l ? Oh y e s , t h a t ' s what I k e p t them f o r m o s t l y . They w e r e k i n d o f m i s e r a b l e a n i m a l s t o k e e p t h o u g h , w e r e n ' t t h e y ? I'm s a y i n g t h a t f r o m e x p e r i e n c e b e c a u s e my dad k e p t some f o r a few y e a r s . You h a d t o h a v e s u c h a g o o d f e n c e t o k e e p them i n . D i d t h e y e v e r b l o a t on you? Oh y e s . You h e a r d o f D r . B e l l o w s ? W e l l , I used Dr. B e l l o w s . Yes. T h a t seemed t o f i x them? That f i x e d them. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. The r e a s o n I a s k i s b e c a u s e ray f a t h e r h a d a s p e c i a l l i t t l e m i x t u r e t h a t he u s e d t o u s e . We u s e d t o make a m i x t u r e o f m i l k a n d s o a p s u d s , a n d we'd p o u r t h a t down t h e i r t h r o a t s . Dad s a i d we h a d t o k e e p them on t h e r u n f o r a w h i l e a n d t h a t seemed t o c u r e them f o r t h e most p a r t . Occasionally we l o s t o n e , o f c o u r s e , and t h e n he'd s l a u g h t e r i t f o r meat. But t h e y were miserable l i t t l e creatures. D i d you s h e a r t h e sheep y o u r s e l f ? Yes. And d i d y o u s e l l t h e w o o l ? S o m e t i m e s , a n d t h e M r s . a l w a y s k e p t one f l e e c e f o r h e r s e l f . She'd c a r d i t and s p i n i t . Who u s e d t o come a r o u n d g e t t i n g t h e w o o l ? Was t h e r e a t r u c k o r d i d y o u h i r e somebody s p e c i a l t o come a n d p i c k up t h e w o o l ? Oh, I u s e d t o s h i p m i n e t o E d m o n t o n , t h a t A s s o c i a t i o n , Sheep G r o w e r s Association. I j o i n e d t h a t when I assumed I h a d s o m e t h i n g t o s e l l . Because y o u c o u l d n ' t g e t n o t h i n g f o r a sheep h e r e i n town. You were l u c k y t o g e t f o u r o r f i v e d o l l a r s , y o u know. Where d i d y o u g e t y o u r s h e e p f r o m o r i g i n a l l y ? I h a d s h e e p when we was down i n C h i p m a n a n d T o f i e l d , b u t when I came t o t h e h o m e s t e a d I s o l d them a l l o f f . I g o t s t a r t e d h e r e , I d o n ' t know i f y o u know t h i s o l d F r e n c h m a n u s e d t o l i v e e a s t o f C o l i n t o n - h e ' s d e a d now Biault. I t o o k o u t some l o g s f o r h i m one t i m e a n d t r a d e d them f o r s h e e p . A n o t h e r t r a d e , eh? I g u e s s a l o t o f p e o p l e d i d t h a t i n t h e o l d d a y s . Y o u a l m o s t h a d t o when t h e r e was no money. W e l l , you c o u l d n ' t s e l l n o t h i n g f o r cash so you had t o t r a d e . D i d you e v e r h i r e h e l p f o r t h e farm? D i d you e v e r have anyone w o r k i n g f o r you? No. J u s t me a n d my f a m i l y . B e c a u s e I know some o f t h e I n d i a n p e o p l e u s e d t o come by a s k i n g f o r w o r k when I l i v e d o n t h e f a r r a . Oh y e s , I d i d h i r e them one f a l l f o r s t o o k i n g . I t was t h e l a s t f a l l I u s e d a b i n d e r a n d I h a d them s t o o k i n g . How many b o y s d i d y o u s a y y o u had? Four. One was k i l l e d o v e r s e a s a n d t h e r e ' s t h r e e h e r e . Donald, Gordon, and R o d n e y . So t h e r e was l o t s o f h e l p t h e r e . Y e s . B u t D o n a l d was t h e o n l y o n e o l d e n o u g h a n d b i g e n o u g h t o h e l p me on the farm. What w o u l d y o u s a y i s s o m e t h i n g v e r y s p e c i a l y o u d i d i n y o u r l i f e ? B e i n g a cowboy, b r e a k i n g horses. Really? Y o u w e r e a cowboy? In Alberta? T e l l us about t h a t . W e l l , Dad h a d t h i s b i g r a n c h . G e n e r a l l y k e p t a b o u t 500 h e a d o f c a t t l e a n d 500 h e a d o f h o r s e s , a n d I s t a r t e d o u t w o r k i n g f o r h i m . He was q u i t e a r i d e r h i m s e l f a n d s o was h i s w i f e . So we were f o o l i n g a r o u n d t h e r e one Sunday a n d r o p e d t h i s b r o n c . A l l r i g h t A l e x , he s a y s , c l i m b a b o a r d . That was my s t a r t . B o y , t h a t was a d a n g e r o u s t h i n g I w o u l d t h i n k . I r o d e q u i t e a f e w o f them a f t e r t h a t . B r o k e them f o r h i m . I ' d b r e a k them and h e ' d t a k e them t o Edmonton a n d s e l l them. D i d he p a y y o u f o r d o i n g t h a t ? P a y me? Oh y e s , he p a i d me. Day w a g e s , two d o l l a r s , i t was p a r t o f my job. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A n y t h i n g e l s e t h a t y o u l o o k b a c k o n y o u r l i f e now a n d t h i n k t h a t was k i n d of s p e c i a l o r d i f f e r e n t ? Which y e a r s were t h e b e s t y e a r s o f your l i f e ? Oh, I t h i n k f r o m 17 t o 2 5 . I was g o o d u n t i l I l o s t my e y e . I was a p r e t t y l u c k y man. I h a d g o o d h e a l t h p r a c t i c a l l y a l l my l i f e . I never had a r e a l l y b a d s i c k n e s s t i l l two y e a r s ago when t h e y t h o u g h t I h a d d i a b e t e s . T h e y p u t me o n d i a b e t e s f o r t h r e e y e a r s a n d t h e n t h i s y e a r when I g o t h u r t , and w e n t t o t h e h o s p i t a l , I f o u n d o u t I n e v e r h a d d i a b e t e s . So I t o o k a l l them n e e d l e s a n d p i l l s f o r n o t h i n g . So f r o m t h e t i m e y o u w e r e 17 t o 25 I was s i n g l e a n d f r e e a n d c o u l d do what I l i k e d when I l i k e d . D i d you wander about a l o t i n those days? W e l l , I w e n t o v e r s e a s f o r one t h i n g , two y e a r s . T h e n I come b a c k b u t I d i d n ' t do t o o much t r a v e l l i n g a r o u n d . I ' d maybe go away a h u n d r e d m i l e s o r s o a n d g e t a j o b o r s o m e t h i n g , maybe b r e a k a h o r s e . Where d i d y o u l e a r n t o do c a r p e n t r y w o r k ? I l e a r n e d t h a t f r o m an o l d c a r p e n t e r a f t e r I come b a c k f r o m t h e a r m y . He was a r e a l c a r p e n t e r a n d he l e a r n e d me t h e t r a d e . What do y o u t h i n k a b o u t t i m e s t o d a y , Mr. L e n n i e ? T h e y ' r e g o o d , r i g h t now, I t h i n k . F o r t h e young p e o p l e a n d f o r o l d p e o p l e , t o o . S u r e , c o u l d n ' t have i t a n y b e t t e r . I s o m e t i m e s wonder a b o u t t h e s e young f e l l o w s s t a r t i n g o u t i n l i f e , f a r m e r s , and g o i n g i n t o a l l t h i s debt. I o f t e n wonder i f t h e y ' l l e v e r g e t o u t o f a l l t h a t l o a d . W e l l , some o f them d o n ' t . They're l o o s i n g t h e i r l a n d . L o o s i n g t h e i r l a n d , t h a t ' s w h a t I was a f r a i d o f , y o u know. T h a t ' s no g o o d for the country. No, i t i s n ' t , a n d i t ' s p a r t i c u l a r l y s a d when p e o p l e l o s e t h e i r f a m i l y farms. S u r e , l o s e y o u r f a m i l y f a r m a n d y o u r home i s gone a n d w h e r e do y o u go? I t h i n k t h e r e ' r e a f e w y o u n g p e o p l e , n o t j u s t f a r m e r s , t h a t owe a l o t o f money. S u r e , a l l young p e o p l e a r e h a v i n g a hard time. B u t t h e s e y o u n g p e o p l e seem t o h a v e money t o b u y b o a t s a n d t r a i l e r s a n d skidoos. What do y o u t h i n k a b o u t a l l t h i s s p a c e e x p l o r a t i o n t h e s e d a y s ? Space e x p l o r a t i o n I t h i n k they s h o u l d f o r g e t i t . I t h i n k they're j u s t s p e n d i n g a n d b u r n i n g u p a l o t o f money f o r n o t h i n g . What a r e t h e y gonna prove? T h e y c l a i m t o have l a n d e d o n t h e moon, w e l l , w h a t g o o d h a s i t d o n e ? W e l l , maybe t h e y f e e l t h a t some d a y t h i s p l a n e t w i l l n o t b e , we may n o t be a b l e t o l i v e o n i t a n d may h a v e t o go i n t o s p a c e t o s u r v i v e . W e l l , t h a t may be s o m e t h i n g , I d o n ' t know. Thank you v e r y much, Mr. L e n n i e . I t h i n k w e ' l l c l o s e u n l e s s you have a n y t h i n g e l s e t h a t y o u ' d l i k e t o add? Have y o u a n y o l d p h o t o g r a p h s ? I d o n ' t know. I t h i n k S h e i l a ' s g o t a l l them. We h a v e a c a m e r a a t t h e a r c h i v e s w h e r e we t a k e a p i c t u r e o f y o u r p i c t u r e , a n d we'd l i k e t o p u t them i n t h e a r c h i v e s t o p r e s e r v e them. I s u p p o s e I could talk to Sheila. Y e s , I'm p r e t t y s u r e s h e ' s g o t t h e p i c t u r e s . T a l k t o h e r a b o u t i t a n y w a y , and s h e ' l l h a v e a n i d e a a l i t t l e m o r e . O k a y , t h a n k y o u e v e r s o much M r . L e n n i e , t h i s was v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g . I'm s u r e y o u ' r e w e l c o m e .